Indicator Unit

So....I bought a new indicator unit from the final parts run.
Interestingly.. what you get us a safrane relay...
Part number...7700808471

Plus some pins and an adapter, and a sheet of instructions (in French)...but there are the pinouts listed.

In essence then if your indicator relay is on the blink (or not).. then you can use a safrane one...and do some wiring.

I'll post the instructions and photos later.
But .. worth knowing there is a suitable alternative unit albeit you may need to cobble some wiring...

Looking forward to the instructions as mine is broken...

Looking forward to the instructions as mine is broken...

Here you go..

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Does this one need the switch live like the later version, I think 1989 onwards?

Are you certain the old relay doesn't work?
I mentioned this issue on another thread.
Do your indicators have a life of their own! Does one stay on while the other one flashes like mad suggesting a blown bulb but all hazards work ok?
Unplug the indicator relay take it out dismantle it and unless there's any obvious damage, tracking or popped capacitors spray it with contact cleaner. Even use some fine wet or dry ruubed out so its not too rough clean the contacts. Reassemble and check connectors before replugging. I would then recommend removing all indicators and cleaning contacts with fine wet & dry paper and spray with contact cleaner. Reassemble and all should work fine again. Certainly worked for me.
You may have an issue with the switch but this is less likely. Its either wiring, connectors or earth but the flasher unit isn't earthed directly so I'd plump for connectors or a fried unit if none of this works!

Even use some fine wet or dry rubbed out so its not too rough clean the contacts.

Umm ....... please do not use wet and dry however well rubbed ... not even 1200 grade. Relay contacts are usually plated with a precious metal ..... usually Platinum ...... or silver or gold.
All you need is a non shiny thickish paper, like writing paper ( Basildon Bond or such like) ... cut into long strips to fit between the contacts .... spray with Super 10 Switch Cleaner, close contacts and clean ..... when the paper gets dirty, tear off end, and continue until the paper comes out clean...... then adjust contacts so they are under stress when closed.

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Yep. I stand corrected. . Plated terminals shouldn't be abraded but if there's any corrosion you may not have a choice if you want to try and get it to work. Nothing lost if it doesn't. Cleaning up contacts on wiring connectors is Ok if corroded otherwise new connectors or a rewire is on the cards.

My original intent of posting was to help folk where cleaning doesn't solve...
---the factory replacement is now to use a safrane relay (7700808471 which seem to be in good supply..original GTA ones not available) plus some pins..and a new mount.
---this does require some wiring as the packaging/pins are different
--you can buy these units from eBay etc for £20
(note...the factory cost for the 60xxx kit was £115 which was the 77xxx safrane relay ..5 terminal connectors..and a plastic block...and a poorly photo copied set of instructions...and besides I think I bought one of the last 60xxx kits)

Yes..you can clean the relays...but there are other failure modes for 30 year old units

I know first hand that if cleaning does not fix then unless you can find one from a breaker..then you can be stuck come MOT time...so this info might help.

Thanks Dave, I haven't tried cleaning mine yet, but it only works on one side at the moment, so this could be a useful backup.
Lee

Hi Dave,
Sorry about the hijacking of your post, ...... but I have not been wasting my time. I have been trying to workout exactly what one is supposed to do to get the later type flasher connected up. But I am having difficulty in rationalising the mod. As you know the old flasher relay only has a permanent and switched 12 volts, as the replacement one has, but the replacement one also has an earth wired into it..... pin 9.
The old one only gets its earth from the the various switches ( 3 off .... one for each direction and one for the hazard ) I can see where the front and rear lamp voltages come out of the relay, and the two 12 v going in .... There must be the hazard tell tail lamp output. Total pins used 8. ...... Now how does the earth fit into this ... pin 9 according to your pick .... BUT ..... there is no pin 7 indicated on your pic.
It is quite difficult to get a decent idea of what is going on ...... any chance of a scan rather than photos, so I can print out the info without trying to read my computer on its side ?

However, just going back to the relay repairs for a moment ..... I have had trouble with my Flasher relay and my Windscreen Wiper relay .... both being of the same type of function, and have successfully overhauled them. The problem with both were dry /cracked solder joints and dirty relay contacts ..... clearly the first port of call.
But it is nice to know if all else fails, a replacement is available ... if we can work out how to modify the wiring ..... I am still working on it.
John

Hi Dave,
Sorry about the hijacking of your post, ...... but I have not been wasting my time. I have been trying to workout exactly what one is supposed to do to get the later type flasher connected up. But I am having difficulty in rationalising the mod. As you know the old flasher relay only has a permanent and switched 12 volts, as the replacement one has, but the replacement one also has an earth wired into it..... pin 9.
The old one only gets its earth from the the various switches ( 3 off .... one for each direction and one for the hazard ) I can see where the front and rear lamp voltages come out of the relay, and the two 12 v going in .... There must be the hazard tell tail lamp output. Total pins used 8. ...... Now how does the earth fit into this ... pin 9 according to your pick .... BUT ..... there is no pin 7 indicated on your pic.
It is quite difficult to get a decent idea of what is going on ...... any chance of a scan rather than photos, so I can print out the info without trying to read my computer on its side ?

However, just going back to the relay repairs for a moment ..... I have had trouble with my Flasher relay and my Windscreen Wiper relay .... both being of the same type of function, and have successfully overhauled them. The problem with both were dry /cracked solder joints and dirty relay contacts ..... clearly the first port of call.
But it is nice to know if all else fails, a replacement is available ... if we can work out how to modify the wiring ..... I am still working on it.
John

Hi John...no problem...glad you are investigating.
I bought this as a spare..not actually needing it right now...but with 2 GTAs I suspect I will need to understand..and the instructions are not super clear...in language/readability or logic.

The way I interpret...based on they provide 3 large and 3 small terminals.(suggests that 2 terminals need to be popped out rather than cut)
....….........
Locate the flasher unit (137)

Modify wiring as shown. Take the wires from old flasher unit. Cut and connect to new female terminals as follows:
Pin 5 : three white/yellow wires (big)
Pin 4: three white/red wires (big)
Pin 3: two black/blue wires (small)
Pin 1: single violet wire (small)

Reuse the plugs for
Pin 6: single yellow wire (big) (+12v switched??)
Pin 8: single orange wire (big) (+12v ??)

Take an earth to pins 2 (big) and 9(small) .mentions connecting thick black wire from the indicator switch.
_________________
I'll fire up the PC and scan later





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I bundled the information up. Scanned instructions and some additional photos / notes...
...Suggest we update this doc as we learn more...

Hi Dave,
Thanks for the the Download scan ..... I have printed the pages I want.
Just a couple of starter points, firstly, I would not cut any wires from the Flasher Unit connector, I would make up 8 leads ... different colours if possible ... and fit a quarter inch male crimp connectors to one end of each wire .... these will plug directly into the connector leaving the other ends to have your Large/small female crimp connectors once you have decided which wire/s go where.
The next one I think I have cracked is the earth connection to the new relay. On your circuit, go to connector 209, bottom of the page where you will see pin 5 (no - Black) goes directly to M 10 ...Earth. If you now go to connector 209 ... up and to the left ... you will see that they have cut the original direct wire from pin 5 to earth, and extended Earth M10 to pin 9 ..... now we are left with remaining length of wire coming from pin 5 which is to be extended and connected to pin 2 of the relay.
That,s as far as I have got at the moment ...... I will pick it up again when I have a bit more time ..... but your interpretation of pins 6 & 8 appear to be correct ... APC = after ign.
Off to a darkened room now.
John

UPDATE: the "alpine" does have some adaptations (from the Safrane unit)
They have added a transistor...see the white wires...and some resistors in line under the white insulation..and the track cut bottom right.
Note the board bottom left corner is trimmed ..so misses a locating slot in the case...to allow space for the extra components added.
I can't see any other mods.

(I have 2 safrane units now.....plus the kit)




Those resistances were by measurement..did not want to take shrink-wrap off
2nd multimeter read...
14.75 KOhm
1.492 KOhm
Not sure what the standard sizes are.. probably 15K and 1.5K nominally.